traffic jam in Zhuhai

Traffic issue will be improved next year!
ZZ

Hope So !!!!@@

"Traffic issue will be improved next year!"

Why?? How??

When I moved to my apartment near the Great Hall/cinema in Wan Zai Sha five years ago it took six minutes by bus to reach my work place on Ningxi road. Now it takes a minimum of twenty minutes. How in the WORLD is the traffic situation going to get BETTER when every Bao Fa Hu (暴发户)with an LV man-bag wants a new Audi A6?

Many roads are under construction! It's the reason why there are terrible traffic jams. I can't agree with your points!
I believe ZhuHai will be better and better~~~
canrun, why you always complain everything???
ZZ

"why you always complain everything???"

If you look back at my comments written in the multiple years I've posted on this site I have, in fact, written much more that I would consider helpful rather than 'complaining.'

Now...when I DO see an important issue...when I DO feel it's necessary to 'complain'-then it's because I am a frog that managed to make it out of the bottom of the well. 井底之蛙. I'm sorry if pointing out facts makes others uncomfortable at times. That's life.

It's going to take a heck of a lot more than new roads to bring about the changes China needs to make to move forward successfully and, yes, 'harmoniously' in the 21st century. The traffic problem in major cities is, indeed, only 'the tip of the iceberg.'

Just one man's opinion.

ZZ walking through life aimlessly with your 'eye wides shut' is not a good approach to the harsh realities of life. It only isolates you from the real world. A naive statement like 'canrun, why you always complain everything' can only concrete a solid understanding on my behalf; that you really don't have realistic look apon life. With China moving at break neck speed to join the modern world, many things are being over looked. But with a population that don't have the right channels to learn and understand about the whole story. The by-product will be people that make statments like 'canrun, why you always complain everything'.

可怕的不是进步速度慢，而是止步不前
Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still

Good points, Kingsta. But, really...back to the traffic issue itself...in all seriousness how anyone can expect the problem to actually get better? If Beijing adds roughly 1,000 new cars a day, one could reasonably assume that with a town of Zhuhai's population and net income the figure would have to be at lest 100 a day here. I just have no idea how the city will be able to handle these incredible changes. Anyone who has been here more than two or three years can see a visible change in the traffic density (and pollution, for that matter).

$200 a barrel oil is going to fix this problem pretty fast. Just watch. China is following the American model which is sad. Big roads, big cars.

I know what you guys means, but complain here can't help to solve any problem. Traffict jam issue was discussed on ZhuHai TV too, the relevant department did pay more attention on it! Actully, you can post your suggestion to the government instead of complain here!

Just my opinion!

ZZ

I think the real question is: why there are taffic jams in Zhuhai?
Coming from Europe where cities are old and narrow, we never have 8 lanes road in the down town area ( Jiu Zhou Da Dao)...
Yes more and more people have got cars in Zhuhai, but we are still far below the average level of Europe ( and even further below than USA).
So why so many traffic jams?
I think it is simply because the driving skills are so poor.

In the next few years, there will more and more cars but at the same time - hopefully - driving skills will also improve.

Hence I don't think the situation will get worse and worse in the years to come.

Of course I miss th Zhuhai from a few years ago when there were non traffic jams... but for a fairly large city, this was perhaps to good to be true, and too good to last!

JJ

"Hence I don't think the situation will get worse and worse in the years to come."

JJ, I respectfully disagree with you. The "ma mu"
(麻木)attitude so pervasive in China has been well-documented on this forum and in other places. Combine that with a great deal of "newbie" drivers and you are looking at recipe for gridlock and accidents. The second factor may well work itself out with time, but the selfish attitudes of the drivers are gonna take a WHOLE lot longer.

I agree with canrun. I think it is going to require a huge change in the way people think here before things could ever change for the better (or simply not get any worse). I marvel everytime I see someone decide that they need to make a u-turn in the middle of the street whenever they get a hair up their a## that they need to go the other way. Or a taxi stopping for a fare in the middle of the street, when they could pull ahead 10 meters and get out of the way. The list could go on and on. Incredible, absolutely incredible.

But on a positive note, Zhuhai still beats the heck out of Shanghai.....

Hi Canrun

I do have an Audi A6...

With white and red license plates?? Two Hello Kitty pillows and a lace tissue box in the back window? My kinda guy! ;)

Hahaha...too funny!! Canrun..u forgot the tinted windows...

A while back I read an article about traffic and Beijing. It compared to similar roads, one in Beijing (or was it Shanghai?) and one in Sydney. The one in Sydney handled a far greater volume of traffic, I think it was almost 4 times, in less time than the one in Beijing. The article put the reason down to nothing more than drivers obeying the road rules, staying in their lane, and maintaining bumper distance. I.E. needles changing of lanes, driving 'between' lanes and trying to jump ahead of the car in front actually made the traffic go slower as well as increase the risk of accidents.

regards,

T. Tempest. DCA
____________________
"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan
All welcome to visit my homepage http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

hello guys

I was and been in zhuhai from time to time, now already about 6-7 years. And what i see its realy not nice in Zhuhai. Maybe the traffic-jam will get better in 5-10 years, but in fact not next year !!!
Next thing is the air pollution get more and more worse since last 5 years, the same situation is also in the see around HK - Shenzhen -GZ- Zhuhai - Macao. in a few years the fish will not living anymore there...
In Afric they already start to Organic farming, when will do this china ? Maybe after 100 Million People are diet.

And all this problems will not change in future as long as the goverment-people's will take undertable money from any companys to cover any things.

In fact, there are a lot of more unhappy things wich is still happen and will go on in zhuhai and china now.

sticking to the trffic - yes, for the first time, traffic jams in zhuhai are bad enough to make one tense. it's too bad; taking the charm out of this laid-back city.cycling can be a real option.
as for the other comments on every chinese wanting a car - as JJ pointed out, the average is far less than in the West. FOr China, America is the model.
As for not respecting traffic rules - I know that this is one place where you can cross a busy road in the middle of signals, and still show your hand for the oncoming car to slow down. It's done every day while crossing the road near the tunnel.

"I know that this is one place where you can cross a busy road in the middle of signals, and still show your hand for the oncoming car to slow down."

Uh huh...see how long THAT luck lasts. Just saw a pedestrian hit by a car today in front of #2 middle school in Wan zai sha. Good luck to ya, though! (Watch out for Aeroclube in his A6-with tissue holder!) ;)

"I know that this is one place where you can cross a busy road in the middle of signals, and still show your hand for the oncoming car to slow down."

Are you out of your mind? I must have at least one near death experience EVERY DAY crossing in a cross walk with a GREEN signal.

As long as people drive the way they do here withthe me first and f--k you all the traffic situation will never improve.
As long as they somehow always squeeze 5 cars abreast at on a 3 lane road at the traffic light things will never improve.
As long as motorcycle drivers & taxi drivers cruise through red lights as if they were just for decoration things will never improve.
As long as people cross the double yellow line to go around everybody else things will never improve.
As long as people cut through parking lots to get around traffic lights things will never improve.
As long as people continue to turn right at traffic lights just to do a quick u-turn on that street and head back out onto the road the came from thereby going around the red traffic signal things will never improve.
As long as people continue to turn left out of a parking lot or intersection and drive directly into oncomming traffic to slowly merge into the lane they belong in, things will never improve.
UNTIL ZHUHAI HIRES MORE TRAFFIC COPS AND STARTS ENFORCING THE LAWS, THINGS WILL NEVER IMPROVE!!!

Sorry, traffic here is a sore subject...

@ Bobc:

"why you always complain everything???" ;)

Things will never improve..it will just get worse!!

China is a developing country. (into what?)

可怕的不是进步速度慢，而是止步不前
Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still

If you don't like it, why don't you leave!?! (Said through the channeled spirit of every Fènnù Qīngnián (愤怒青年) who may be reading this...)

I have been driving in Zhuhai for a couple of years. I drive a small nippy car, because its easier to zip in amongst the slow drivers and escape the slow ones.
The problems are numerous. First many Chinese drivers drive like they used to ride their bikes, as kids. . Second is the training, (or lack of) from so called "instructors" at great expense to the learners. . My wife got her license (dont know how ?? ) after 15 lessons and 5000yuan.Driving with her..even now scares sh...t out of me. i was really taken back, by what the instructor taught her. Always start car with clutch in and in gear...dont turn up radio too loud, uses too much power,..put on indicators as you change lanes ????really !!! The Instructor yelled at her rudely on numerous occasions as he had no patience .I did think of going to visit him but ......
I took a pics of my wife practising on the silly driving course and as the car came around the bend, I couldnt beleive my eyes !The guy was asleep in the passenger seat. My wife told me, that every lesson, he would have a ten minute nap and tell her to just keep going around the course. A lot of people buy their license and the lack of Police presence on the road doesn,t help !
I drive to work every day and home again. I used to stress out at the drivers who crawl away from a green light and every one follows suite and of course I miss it. I cringe when taxis cut you off with no indication at all, stop in the middle of the road to p/up or drop off and stop across a entrance when you are trying to beat traffic coming towards you at high speed as you try to make it to the other side. The ones that fly out of a side road or shopping entrance and never look to see whats coming. The bus and truck drivers who think..."big has right of way.
I love the drivers who just got their license and feel to drive at 23klm/ h in the 70klm/h lane whilst on their mobile (common).Many who brake quickly and suddenly to drop back to 45klm/h for a 70klm/h overhead camera . My other favourite is the 90% of vehicles who find it so hard to take off when turning left or right at lights or doing a U-turns (guess its difficult doing a u-turn while on the phone ) .If you own a vehicle..you will testify to the many many fees and many klms travelled to pay them. Why would the Authorities bother to slow the pace of sales, when its such a great revenue earner, including all the extra fuel sales because of long long long traffic lights, which could be programmed more efficiently. . The old tunnel must have paid for itself 500 times by now !
Last but not least...how everyone slows to 35klm/h for the tunnel...both lanes..(except cabs who zip from lane to lane)...must be the sudden shock of going from Day to night or night to dark ...whatever...yes...I am seriously thinking of getting my old bike out of mothballs .Or ! another alternative is for me to drive like them...yehhh good idea ! I know, I know ... I dont have to stay in China !

Now this is fun!!

Beats the hell out of the silly word association forum. (sorry I couldn't resist.....)

China is a developing country (canrun add your next quirky remark,pls)

可怕的不是进步速度慢，而是止步不前
Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still

"China is a developing country"

...with 5,000 years of history. Can't have it both ways, folks!

(Just joking in a way, of course. There are many things I love about China, including my wife. I WANT to see the country succeed, as do nearly all of the people posting here. There are times when I feel very confident about China's (peaceful) rise and then there are others when I am scared s--tless. Just finished reading the book by James Mann called "The China Fantasy." Highly recommended reading for a very reasonable and multi-faceted depiction of possible scenarios for China's future.)

To quote The Washington Post:

"Like all good polemics, this one raises more questions than it answers. Can the Chinese Communist Party, which now numbers some 70 million people, really be as monolithic or as cunning as he suggests? Is the American establishment really of one mind on China? Is there no possibility of the Chinese middle classes, or at least part of them, joining forces with the country's long-suffering peasants to push for greater democracy? We will have to wait and see, but, in the meantime, Mann has done a fine job of making sure that we won't do so complacently."

http://www.amazon.com/China-Fantasy-Leaders-Explain-Repression/dp/067003...

Sorry about the soap box! It's been one of those days...

@: Canrun,
I am not always so negative and there are a lot of things I like about ZhuHai. Otherwise I would not have moved here. I do not work here. I work in Macao. I choose to live here because I like it.
However, when it seems I am a barely able to evade death on the road from ZhuHai to the border at leat once or twice a week I think it shows that something is wrong.

Pointing out what is wrong should not be misconstued as an overall negative attitude. Criticism often prompts improvements. If the government thinks everyone is happy why would they work to improve things?

The traffic problems here arise from peoples general attitudes towards the rules.

If there were more Police in ZhuHai and they were willing to enforce the rules things would improve quickly.

I am in Macao on a daily basis too. Things there, traffic wise are better than here only because there are tons more Police.
In areas of Macao where police and their cameras are sparse the rules are broken more frequently.
One way around this that seems to work in other places where human nature is oft allowed to run unchecked such as in California, is the judicious use of Road spikes. You know, those slanted spikes that if you run over them going in the wrong direction they rip your tires to shreds?? They work wonders keeping people there from going in the out door and such. Used here in similar conditions would be a cheap and effective way of getting people to at least obey some of the rules. ie: stopping wrong way traffic on one way roads. Stopping people from creating lanes where they weren't any before.

Sorry, if I seem negative but "the squeeky wheel gets the grease".

"Things there, traffic wise are better than here only because there are tons more Police."

Do you really think that's the ONLY reason? I would most certainly bring up the VERY different cultural and altruistic atmosphere as being other important influences.

AND..this should put a smile on the faces of those who are big fans (like I am!) of Audi A6s with the red and white plates! ;)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IK21Ad01.html

If a car is the honorable identity, if one person drive a car feel more comfortable, is it one of the two reasons why people like to buy cars just because you get some money to show they can affort a car, saying two,three and even more. Or some people don't know how to do investment(buying a car first rather then buying a house)?
look at a good sample of Holland, rich people ride bikes. What is values different in the instance?

If drivers start obeying the rules things aren't going to just start coming up roses. I think with stricter adherence to road rules will also come road rage. Something you don't really see much of in Zhuhai. Also the days of Taxis pulling a u-turn in the middle of the street to pick you up will also be gone. Standing on a corner in Macau watching empty taxis whis by the other side of the street can make you appreciate what we've got in Zhuhai.

But then it will be safe enough in Zhuhai to actually cross the street and catch the taxi going the other way :-)

Police

I do think the major difference in the way people drive in HK/Macao/ZhuHai is due to the number of police. This, in and of itself is a reflection on the culture. If left unchecked the natural tendency of most people is to do whatever they can get away with. Yes education has a lot to do with it. The better educated someone is the more likely they will have the willpower to control themselves and not give in to self indulgent behavior on the road. China is at the moment still developing. Developing its educational standards as well. Unfortunately though at the moment a large portion of the driving population is under educated. So, what you see on the roads is human nature left unchecked.
In more prosperous Chinese societies the governments have the money to Police the population. They know what the general population will try to get away with and they use numbers to control it.
HK probably has the most police and the better drivers. Macao less so on both counts. Singapore the most on all counts but now we are getting extreme. They know human nature and they stamp on it.
When ZhuHai's educational standards are raised and its economy improves to the point where they can police the society properly, traffic and other aspects of ZhuHai will also improve.

"When ZhuHai's educational standards are raised and its economy improves to the point where they can police the society properly, traffic and other aspects of ZhuHai will also improve."

Bob, I hope you are right. But to be very frank, I am not that hopeful about the future, regardless of the educational level or economic progress. In my opinion it is, in fact, a "spiritual sickness" in many ways. It's the "ma mu" (麻木) mindset that permeates Mainland Chinese society at nearly every level- including the police- that will hold the Mainland back, so to speak. Even as far back as the early 1900s Lu Xun used this term when angrily describing a photo of a crowd watching a beheading.

Here's a link that pretty much sums up a lot of what one sees on a daily basis in the People's Republic.

http://www.poopreport.com/Travel/Content/China/china.html

"From birth to old-age, the lesson of base selfishness is reinforced again and again. Your physical needs should be taken care of as soon as possible. If you are at a train station, screw everyone else and jump the queue because you want your train ticket now. As a government bureaucrat, steal as much as money as you can as quickly as you can because you might not have another opportunity at the trough. If you see someone else in pain, stare, amuse yourself, but never ever do something to help because if you help someone then you become responsible for that person, and that is completely against your narrow self-interests.

This idea is sometimes taken to its logical, but most grotesque, end: at accidents that occur at places and times where there are no witnesses, but one of the drivers is injured, the other driver sometimes intentionally hits the other person again to kill him. Why? Because if he stayed alive the other driver would be responsible for his medical bills; but if he's dead then he doesn't have an impact on the other driver's life or pocketbook. Pause and consider the twistedness of that. Then pause again to consider that such stories are common enough to make it onto CCTV."

Fair or unfair, right or wrong, I'll leave it to others to decide. (My apologies about the blog name...the original post has long since disappeared.)

The majority of drivers in Zhuhai are very selfish..including females..I partially blame the education, of the profit driven license and driving schools given to them ..I see the majority are on mobiles (going slowwwww)..talking, or showing friends the sights or flirting ..with female passengers.. and dont give a sh...t if someone wants to travel at 70klm/h in a 70klm speed zone even if they are content sitting on 40..and decide to turn left or right without looking or giving a signal...and ignore your flashing of lights and horn as a warning..as if to look at you with a blank expression of ..(whats wrong with them )... its called ignorance ).i see them actually reading the paper whilst driving !! They wouldnt last 5 mimutes in a western society..never the less....things will take a longggg time to improve and it will be when the government realises it is a great revenue exercise to police the rules of the road . But I guess it could be worse...I could be in Wuhan or Changsha..horror !!!But I feel better week on week because I find I am becoming a Chinese driver...less stressful ."If you can,t beat them join them I say "

again,
all those attitudes are being perpetuated generation to generation but only due to an age old lack of money and education amongst the populace.

30 years ago littering was rampant in the US. A nicely done education campaign helped start the changes in attitudes from the ground up (school kids up). Now there still is plenty but not like when I was a kid.

Other things were changed as well over the years.

Developing nations often have similar problems. Affluence and embarrassment do wonders for a society.

Crowded palces as well. There are plenty of selfish drivers in NYC I can tell you.

I truly believe things here will change for the better. I just may be too old to enjoy it when it happens!

"Affluence and embarrassment do wonders for a society."

Well said. That's pretty much what I hang my hat on when I hope for social "improvements" in China. That being said, those with the most affluence at the moment seem- by far- to often be the worst offenders.

I am still the first to get to work...just by playing "Drive like a Taxi "

In a country where we a lot of people deal with overseas people who are in different timezones-why do we go to work at the same time. If you deal with Europe why not start at 10 and finish at 7 for instance.

Very philosophical.

Now...

HUH??!!

Let's put things in perspective. Compare to most other ASEAN cities; Manila, Bangkok, Jakarta, Calcutta, Saigon our Zhuhai is paradise. Road conditions here is far better than other Asian countries, and if there are repairs to be done, it does not take 10 years to fix a pot hole. The local public transportation is not perfect, but neither is the subway in NY or the bus system in San Francisco.

In my opinion, traffic conditions in China has been improving. I can remember just a few years back when farm animals were all over the road and cars going the wrong way with far more frequency. China has changed from a bicycle to a BMW nation in one short generation. Under such rapid transition, reasonable growing pains is understandable.

China still have a lot to change, and the Chinese still have a lot to learn to become a truly modern and civilized country. Like the banking system, the stock market, the traffic jams in Zhuhai is just one indicator of the changes and reforms taking place. I personally ride my bike most of time. There is not a day that goes by that i didn't feel/do like giving someone the finger or scream at the inconsiderate drivers. However, i also sense we are here to witness and participate in a historic event with boundless opportunities that China has to offer. Putting that in mind, i just do what my first Sargent use to tell us in basic, "just put your mind in neutral and shove on!"

"However, i also sense we are here to witness and participate in a historic event with boundless opportunities that China has to offer."

You make some excellent points in your post and I hope your optimism comes to fruition. I recently read an EXCELLENT article that very clearly lays out many of the possible outcomes for China in the next 20 years, both politically and economically.

The basic thesis is this: "This is the China Model: half liberal and international, half authoritarian and insular. Can it last?"

I encourage you to read it and draw your own conclusions. I am especially interested in James Mann's theories outlined in the book "The China Fantasy" and also quoted in this article.

(It was written by an Aussie, by the way...)

http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents...?

____________________

"This is not the conclusion of an incident, but a new beginning. Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood."
Lu Xun, 1926

Life is full of uncertainties. If an economic hic-up in Malaysia a few years back can send the world into a general recession for a couple of years, think what would happen if something truly major happens in the US would do to China and the rest of the world. Just one suit case nuke going off anywhere in the US would set off economic tremors so bleak we don't even want to think about how far the stock market might drop or how many K-Marts might close. But hey, we are got more important stuff to worry about don't we, like the traffic mess in Jida.

Think you should get your facts right. The Asian financial crisis in 1997 was triggered by the excessive fiscal imprudence of Thailand. In particular the large borrowings in foreign currency by the banks that fed the property and equity bubbles, which became a magnet for the hedge funds to attack its currency, the Baht. Then due to herd mentality or as some suspect a coordinated attack, led to attacks as well on the currencies of Korea, Indonesia, Philippines and also Malaysia. Malaysia was in the news at that time for being the only country who refused to be bailed out by the IMF. With its self-imposed remedy of fixed exchange rate system, a specially set up loan management company (who bought over viable non-performing loans from the banks and attempted to recoup most of the value of these)and restructuring of the financial services sector(bank mergers, tougher governance etc) Malaysia recovered better than any.

If you look at the scenario that happened in Thailand 10 years ago, doesn't it sound very similar to what's happening in the US? The way the USD is being shunned by not just the hedge funds but by the investing global public and even the central banks and Warren Buffett!

Gee, how did we get from traffic mess in Jida to the Central bank of Malaysia? Didn't mean to slander Malaysia, but i was referring to the currency attack by George Soros around 02'(?) and how fragile an interconnected global economy can be. But i am sure you know what you are talking about, and thanks for the education, really! I agree with your synopsis; i, too, will be moving dollars out for more fertile investment opportunities; i.e. real estate in Zhuhai that will further contribute to our traffic mess in Jida.

Hl, I think you would more comfortable over at the word-association board...

Ys, back to traffic discussion: Just saw a guy get run over by a big truck this morning in Wanzai... He was standing where I was standng 2 minutes beforehand and just got ran over...
It's scary to cross the roads in Wanzai I tell you.
JJ