tipping in RUDE

What about the 10% "service charge" which is added to the bill? Does this go directly to the waiters/waitresses or is it also kept by management?

the waiters/waitreses get nothing except the salaries fixed when they joined.

Huh? That's so messed up? Oh well the last time i went I wasn't satisfied with the service anyway.

Why are you 'tipping' in China, anyway?

It's not a moral obligation here, and tips, rarely, as others have already mentioned, go to the serving staff, either individually or via equal shares of the tipping jar.

The whole idea is just wrong.

regards,

T. Tempest. DCA
____________________
"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan
All welcome to visit my homepage http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

I have never seen tipping as an obligation, more like a gratitude thing. But firing staff for keeping tips they receive is just wrong? If what they said is true anyway.

Of course tipping is not required or expected in China. However, there is nothing wrong with leaving one if you want to.

I find it despicable that RUDE is instructing their staff to accept tips and not letting them keep them. I also find it despicable that they add a service charge to their bill without giving any of this to their staff. If their profit margin is not high enough, they should increase their prices. This way it is more transparent. Simply adding a service charge to make their prices seem lower is deceiving.

The solution is simple vote with your feet; if you believe this is not acceptable do no patronize the establishment. I decided to visit this establishment on one occasion and was not completely satisfied so no longer support them.

I am very surprised to hear this about rude... I really think this is one of the best places in Zhuhai... in terms of quality ( services and products).
I would like to know Jyoti, how did you find out out about the staff being sacked?
The staff I meet there always seems to be in a good mood... and this would not happen in an establishment with a harsh management.
Life is much better in Zhuhai with the rude than without, that's what I say :)
JJ

you'd be surprised JJ, at the management of many of these western cafes...UBC for instance, is a slave driver. About Rude, I learnt it form the horse's mouth, thats all i can say. Wouldn't have posted it otherwise.

at any rate, i dont feel so het up about the dismissal. he broke the rule. it's the rule itself that's so dishonest. a tip is for the individual, not for the management. customers should know that.
or, they should instruct their staff not to accept tips.

its all good

hey you all there, i dont understand why you are all against THE RUDE BAR. if they keep the tips or give it to the staff its their problem, its their way of working.so we cant tell them what he shud or shud not do.i dont know but someone out there wants to spoil the name of this bar.

what does the "horse mouth"means?
Thanks,
JJ

And yes, in some restaurants and bars , you can feel the staff is overworked, underpaid and they don;t look very happy.
But I repeat, that is not a all the feeling when I get when I go to rude: smily, chatty happy staff... this is why I am surprised about this thread :):)

JJ

``from the horse's mouth'' means directly from the person who is affected. i got this from one such person, whose honesty i dont doubt.
the staff is not underpaid or overworked. it's the tipping rule that i find obnoxious. and since many of us do tip there, i thought it better to share the knowledge so that u know where the tips are going.

Since Rude is such a prominent part of Expat9, and we all like to go there, I think it is time that the ownership or management of Rude step up and clarify the situation.

Tips are meant for the service staff and not the management or ownership. Since they run such a high class operation, i would be severely disappointed if this was true. And if it is, they should owned up to it, apologize to the patrons and make amends with the STAFF, and terminate this policy IMMEDIATELY!

We are living in China and there are no laws that require restaurants to share service charges or tips. Same goes for Hong Kong and Macau. I agree it's rude (pardon the pun) but that's how things are here. If you are on a mission to change an entire country's way of thinking, you might end up in the looney bin.

And I am quite sure rude follow this general rule of sharings tips...
If they do, and one member of staff keeps his or her tips for themselves, then that member of staff is doing something unfair to the others...
Anyway, before making a judgment, one should listen to both sides of the story :)
JJ

I don't think the staff in RUDE could be treated that unfairly: I agree with JJ, they look really happy and in good mood when I go there!

Hi everyone,

On behalf of Rude's so-called Management, I would like to thank all of your comments, and dissucssions about the tipping system in Rude and all of the other places in China. It is so corresponding to the our concerns towards our staffs' benefits along the way. yes,let me take this chance to clarify a little to ease all of the wonders about tipping.

Better service, more tips that's something we believe, that's why "every penny" of the tips we receive is accounted in daily basis and put into our frontier staffs pockets only! as long as they pass over the probation (previously 3 month, now because of the new national law of labour, it is 1 month as probation) and hasn't resigned yet! ...:(
They are including the floor servers, the floor supervisors, bar tenders, cleaning ladies and secuirty who generating services directly to our customers, but not for any staffs in the back office, or so-called management including me and our lovely Danis, the general manager, though he needs to help to take care of the floor's serving time to time..:)

Our staffs would smile more if there are tips. If not I strongly believe that we would be as same happy towards every single bills!

Pleasent personalty, pointful servies in smart way, English Speaking...etc. That's the elements we desire on every people working under Rude, however, we well understand the difficulty in recruiting these decent staffs in Zhuhai, while facing the competition from the giantic groups in Macau and other bigger cities in China, and it takes time for people understand and catch the international service way and standard.Therefore, Rude provide extra high living allowance beside the monthly salary, then OT 1.5 times compensation, 5 days annual leave after 1 years of serving ,free accomodation, social security scheme, bonus...(I also take this chance to advertise a little bit our actually quite attractive offers.)

We well understand that we leave so much room to be improved on serivce, food and drink, that's something we keep working hard since rude's established, it is nothing more than to achieve our company's primary goal--providing a decent place to shop eat drink in Zhuhai. Many people told us that it is much easier to do so in other big cities in China such as Shanghai, Beiging, even Shenzhen, but it is the place we live, Zhuhai.

Thanks again for all of your love and support along the way to Rude. It is more than welcome to receive your valuable comments, complaints, suggestion (It can be by talking to Anna and Danis,our Floor Manager and our General Manager, or by e-mail info@therude.com) as all of them are the crucial information for our improvement.

Looking forward to seeing all of you at Rude!
P.S.: Danis is NOW having a hard time figuring out the set up for Valentine's Day, the decoration, menu, hope we can have some inspiration from you, too...:)

regards,

Michael Fu

thanks for clarifying. the information about `staff on probation' explains many things.

Thanks for clarifying the situation. It is always a treat and pleasure to go to RUDE.

Good to hear that! Pls reserve a table for me for the V day! :-)

HKer1979 thanks for the clarification. Everything sounds fair and reasonable.

regards,

T. Tempest. DCA
____________________
"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan
All welcome to visit my homepage http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

Dont have much to say bout Rude really,I've only been there once... I do know about service charge there though and at the few other places as well. Usually I dont tip if the service charge applies,as i always thought that the money goes to stuff,thats why its called "service charge".
Anyway,I think it is up to the particular stuff member (that received the tip)where the money should go,and whether he/she feels like sharing or keeping the tip.
As for me- if i really enjoyed my time at some place and the service was awesome I'd tip... But it hardly ever happens in China, even though the stuff often friendly at the most places I go,chinese customer service overall sucks and quite often disappoints me. Or maybe I'm just not used to the way they do it...it is my opinion anyway.
K

I could not have agreed more with you. The "fu wu" is poor in China.

Since i have done my share of waiting on tables when i was in college, i will comment on the custom and nature of tipping. A tip does not just go to the immediate person who have direct contact with you, but to all the other service staff who supports the waiter; the bus boy, the chief, the greeter, all the people who helped to make your dining experience wonderful. A good waiter often reaches celebrity status in their own right, making up to $700+ a shift, mostly tax free.

Philosophy aside, we tip in our home country because we are EXPECTED to and not because we want to! When was the last time we did not leave behind a "customary tip"? Would we dare not to leave a SUFFICIENT tip to a NYC taxi driver?

Let's also ask ourselves when was the last time we tipped in Zhuhai for good service? Would you leave a 10% or better 15-25% tip in Rude if they did not tack it on? Have we tipped a taxi driver in Zhuhai recently, and don't tell me the drivers in NYC are much sweeter, gentler drivers.

What do you think the level of service might be if there was no tipping where we came from? I think the service here in China is PRETTY GOOD consider that we almost NEVER tip because it is not customary. On more than one occasion when I have tipped, only to have the service person run after me to hand me back the money and politely tell me that it was not necessary. I think the Chinese servers are under appreciated for the little compensation that they do receive.

I've mentioned before that I find this concept of tipping to be morally wrong. This is my personal perspective and has nothing to do with me being Australian.

Yes, in Australia there is a general culture of non-tipping, but tips do get given from time to time , e.g. the garbage collectors, postman, paperboy etc. at/around Xmas time.

My biggest gripe is not so much with discretionary tipping but with expected (mandatory?) tipping, especially when this is coupled with enforced low wages - insufficient in their own right for allowing a full time worker to attain a minimum standard of living.

But, that's just me. For some interesting (no, these don't necessarily back my point of view so you can relax) commentary on the issue of tipping check the following links:

1. From an individual's perspective...
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.coyoteblog.com/coy...

2. From an economics perspective...
http://www.econ.nyu.edu/cvstarr/working/1979/RR79-19.pdf

3. Comparison of tipping expectations from around the world.
Note: the comment on China, is 'technically' incorrect as this was apparently phased out late last century. ;-)
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://politicalcalculations....

regards,

T. Tempest. DCA
____________________
"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan
All welcome to visit my homepage http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

and....... one more from another Australian's point of view, located on "Henry Thornton".
http://www.henrythornton.com/article.asp?article_id=3785

regards,

T. Tempest. DCA
____________________
"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan
All welcome to visit my homepage http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

Never been to US myself,so i wouldnt know for sure...but heard from many people,just like you said, on most occasions no one would make an extra move for you unless you tip,and regardless of your experience at the given place you dont leave without tipping. That is the way,that is the custom, that is the bed you've made for yourselves over the years. But it doesnt necessary mean that it should be this way everywhere else. Now lets take Australia,NZ,Europe- lived there, worked in customer service there, managed to have a great time or provide it (as a member of cafe stuff) with no tips needed.... and in a rare case of misunderstanding or mistake there's always a proper apology almost every time followed by complementary drinks or food..and always a way of dealing with mistakes and making sure that people leave the place satisfied.
China just doesn't cut it!!! - Friendly - yes, Lovely -most of the time....but in the same time still manage to disapoint you pretty often - charge you for things you didnt order, bring you wrong meals/drinks, mix up your order, forget some meals and then bring them in the very end when everybody is finished and still charge you for it, make you wait longer then it takes, take away your plate when you're not done yet, stand there and stare while you're trying to eat, dont give you your check &just name the price, pretend not to understand what you're saying or simply dont even want do deal with you when they see you're a round eye(even though you speak not bad Chinese),keep sending new people to you so you repeat for the 10th time what is the problem....etc,etc, etc. And its not only the restaurants-it is everywhere you go. And there's hardly ever anything you can do...and nothing follows except dull "soly"(sorry) and stupid smile. Frustrating and disappointing in most cases. They've been locked away from the rest of world for way too long, and it'l take awhile before they change and get used to us around or maybe we get used to their way...coz in the end of the day its their land, guess we'll never know for sure who's right, still everybody's entitled to their own opinion:) So...,sorry but for now i stick to mine- customer service here is NO GOOD regardless of what you tip, that is why the "no tipping" policy applies everywhere i go unless i really loved it!
:)
Peace

K

It ment to be short and simple,,,guess i shouldnt start a happy hour while comment in forums. It is, though, mostly what i was meaning to say,only a bit blury in some placeas.
:)

K

Aha! My dear Kittens, methinks you are indeed hitting a low in what is known as the Chinese "Cycle of Funk!" ;)

http://www.brezhnev.net/2006/05/24/66.html

Heck, even the Chinese get it, too!
http://news.imagethief.com/blogs/china/archive/2007/04/26/even-chinese-p...?

(After 10 days in Hawaii last week, I'm re-charged, Funk-less and ready to go-though that will certainly change as of tomorrow!) Just thought I'd rub that in to all of ya'll! ;)

I find it interesting that since the statement by the management of Rude in this thread there has been no reply or rebuttal from the person that started the whole thing. Perhaps the horse's mouth was really part of another equine animal's anatomy.....

It was interesting reading:) Thanks canrun.
Think i'm fine though...We are different after all and its understandable that we might find some things here irritating. As i've heard so many times "you cant help yourself to Love and Hate China at the same time", still I dont hate it that much and I try dealing with things that bother me too. I just recon that customer service here Sucks, or at least doesnt do well enough for me to wanna tip (think that was the topic,at least thats where it gotten from Rude):)...sorry i'm repeating myself.

And one more : LUCKY BASTARD canrun!!! :) wouldnt might going there myself for a few days!
peace
K

Why the heck this yesterday's "masterpiece" by me appeared in the end ???
K

no idea...

:)
K

Well Kitten you have got my support on some of those comments but I guess the real point I want to support is that if there is one custom the Americans want to leave behind then it is tipping.
I have seen in other parts of Asia over the years the effects it has caused.Since 1965 I lived in Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Thailand and of course China. Ultimately it becomes an expectation in most places, staff just stand there with their hand out waiting for that reward and even then look strangely at you if it is not enough.They even end up telling you 'x' amount is expected.
Look no one can tell me one of the major reasons we live here is because things in general are cheap compared to many western countries hence I am suggesting lets do as the Chinese do 'DON'T TIP'

Well Kitten you have got my support on some of those comments but I guess the real point I want to support is that if there is one custom the Americans want to leave behind then it is tipping.
I have seen in other parts of Asia over the years the effects it has caused.Since 1965 I lived in Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Thailand and of course China. Ultimately it becomes an expectation in most places, staff just stand there with their hand out waiting for that reward and even then look strangely at you if it is not enough.They even end up telling you 'x' amount is expected.
Look no one can tell me one of the major reasons we live here is because things in general are cheap compared to many western countries hence I am suggesting lets do as the Chinese do 'DON'T TIP'

Well, I thought I will not write on this topic, but it keeps on coming that I felt that I better tell my experience.

I was inviting my daughters and son-in-laws to a chinese restaurant in a 5 stars hotel. The service and food was good. When I got the change after paying the bill, I was ready to leave a good tip, but to our surprise, the waiter walked away declining the tips. My kids and I were so surprised, only later when I found out that the tips go the management then I understood the reason. I am in a dilemma situation, sure I do not want to give tips if the management is going to take it, but also want to show my appreciation to the serving staff who work hard, a kind of habit from living in the States, but not a big percentage.

Wife of Nivek

for one, i immediately replied thanking rude for their clarification. take the trouble to read before shooting your mouth off.
second, the horse's mouth was indeed just that. a friend of mine was working for rude. she has since resigned - and not only because she didn't get to keep the tips. she was ``on probation'', and as the Rude management clarified, those on probation aren't allowed to keep tips.
it would be interesting to know how many of Rude staff is ``on probation''.

I have just gotta buy into this tipping debate. I find it an absolutely despicable custom to be EXPECTED to tip. If I tip, it's because I thought the service was beyond the call of duty and I want to show my appreciation. I just hate having to pay a tip because it's expected, regardless of the service rendered. Just include it in the bill and pay the staff a decent wage, and let them be rewarded if the service is outstanding, not cos they happened to be there.

Call me old fashioned, but I actually like to take my own bags to my own room - try that in some places in the USA and the staff act like you've just stole their lunch. The hassle of tipping really spoils travelling to the USA, I hate it, and the less it catches on here the better.