Stupid Ms. Pelosi

err. excuse me orrin, i think your politics are showing. didnt the article claim both mr. mcain and ms. pelosi joined in their condemnation of recent 'events'? her comments were measured and in line with many commentators with the guts to risk the ire of the 'moneytrain' in question. in truth ,all western travellers abroad ,have for the past 5 years been put in invidious ,sometimes dangerous positions by someone a little further up the political food chain,and november can not come quickly enough to make the entire world, including you and me, a little safer out there in the wider world. any blinkered political observations put up for public view should attract balanced comment, and yours ,mr. orrin are prime like rib eye steak.

@chopper:

Strangely enough, I agree with you…... to a point. Indeed, my politics may be showing; that’s why I added the caveat “and others” in my post. Over the past five years, we have been subjected to numerous changes in visa charges, visa acquisition changes, and other “speed bumps” for our existence here, all of which have been a direct result of seemingly nonsensical moves by our own home countries.

Although I am a proud, and life-long Republican, I include Senator McCain in my comments. He is a candidate in a very competitive campaign for the highest office in the land. The key word here is “candidate”. Indeed, he is going to “posture” himself as best as he can to garner financial support and, ultimately, votes. Unfortunately, that’s how the system works. It doesn’t make him any better or worse than his other two rivals.

When I make a comment on this or any other similar site, I do so with the full knowledge that I’m doing so in a public forum, and that I may be challenged or vilified by anyone who wants to take the time and effort to do so. That’s called “free speech”.

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"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

@chopper: This is not directed at you.

I should add at this point that, if you want to take issue with me, or attempt to vilify me, please back up your comments with fact. If you choose not to do so, then please be prepared to……….

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cheers orrin, thanks for the gracious response. i love lively debate.words are fascinating though, as the reference you make to 'others'in your post seems to be covered by your use of the term 'her cronies', a term i think both mr.mc cain and ms.pelosi would baulk at.as a [very] amateur student of the politics of your country and an unashamed admirer [recent history notwithstanding] of the role played by the u.s. in the world, im a little dismayed by the direction and quality of political rhetoric used not just by the current administration of the u.s., but by ,among others ,the recently vanquished and morally bankrupt conservative government in my native australia. in oz we call it 'dog whistling', where the people who want to hear a particular [usually jaundiced]viewpoint ,will hear it loud and clear,whilst other non-interest group parties remain unconcerned. i dont know if the term 'wedge politics' is used in the u.s., but it is used 'de riguer' these days to say in effect' if your not with us , your a ...traitor,..a cutter and runner .. or worse.its the politics of exclusion,fear, and division, and hopefully its on its last legs.

At least you dont have a Monarchy that in between killing endangered animals or talking to plants makes life hard for their subjects. Well, i dunno, Chopper do Aussies give a castlemaine XXXX about the Royals now?

Prince Charlie recently said about boycotting China, lack of culture over here etc, so i was expecting my visa fee to increase but no fall out this time.
At least Prince Philip likes China.On a Royal visit to a car manufacturer's plant he expressed concern about allowing quote "untrustworthy slanty eyes" to operate in England. He then commented that the quality of work looked "like it had been done by a Pakistani".(he was talking about the Japanese btw, my apologies to any Japanese expats, no offence meant)

interesting question spencer. ironically australia still does have a monarchy , or i should say, the monarchy still has us. at least these days the monarchy is largely a benign ,quaint ,traditional,touristy affair. in the 70's an australian government was summilarily dismissed on the strength of a recommendation to the queen by then governor-general [and blue blood] sir john kerr. i find prince charlies goofiness appealing[tampon pillow-talk notwithstanding], and phil the greek's antiquated,python-esque imperialism is amusing and harmless.i actually admire the strength of the queen for mantaining a dignified position since 1956, while abhorring the born to rule idea of royalty. i still think princess di looked like a bloke in drag,but i think im the only one in this club. once while waiting alone for the bus in tee tree gully ,south oz a motorcade approached and a loudhailer blurted out 'PRINCESS ANNE APPROACHING' ,and in one of the backseats was a royal wave bearing occupant.i laughed like buggery , at my private royal flypast. i was also at darling harbour in sydney in 1990 when some crackpot ran onto the stage with [what turned out to be a starting]gun and waved it round prince charlies royal personage. he was pretty cool ,i must say, and [australian of the year]ian kiernan grabbed the poor bugger in a hell of a headlock till the cops nabbed him.[ the crackpot ,not prince] .spending almost a year in hong kong only increased my admiration for the quirkiness of the british perspective after a pretty hardline ,lifelong republican /separatist stance. i just love the fact that 100 years ago some british city planner looked up to victoria peak and said' bugger it, lets run a ruddy tram up there.' gotta love that. oh, and my first'gig' was playing snare drum to'god save the queen' at school assembly aged 7.ok, thats about it ,cheers

Wow, some interesting stuff today.

Re the Aussies, we had a referendum to select monachy vis republic, and the republican cause failed miserably. It was partly due to the then Prime Minister and devout Monarchist offering of a republic system that didn't appeal, but none the less it failed. I can't help but think the average Ozzie goes cold at the idea of an American presidential campaign to select the top dog.

From afar, and having daily news of the US presidential campaign shoved down out throats by the need to fill news bulletins, the US system is a giant turn off. The average Aussie thinks Bush is a joke, and any system that could but Bush at the top of the tree is therefore a bad system. Part of the reason there was a change of government in Australia this last year was that the average Aussie saw our top dog being so far up Bush's backside that only his feet were hanging out.

Re the Monachy. It's quaint, steeped in history and no longer that relevant. But I reckon the worst thing the English could do is get rid of it. If there was no Charles, no Carmilla or Phillip - people would have to resort to making fun of the real leaders, and that's more damaging. Furthermore, whilst you have them, you can poke fun at the American system.

Apologies to all American who think their system is the best. It might be, but it sure as hell drives the rest of the world nuts.

Back to orrin's original post. There is not much we can do about what is said by the big end of town, I guess we just have to grin and bear it.

I do feel particularly sorry American's travelling and living in Asia. In my experience, the average Asian really doesn't like America and the UK isn't that far behind.

I guess that's the price one pays for being past or present Superpowers who have done their bit to oppress other countries, cultures and economies.

Not being either American or English has it's advantages, but as orrin has pointed out, it affects us all.

Before I am accused of being an American basher - I have been to the US many times, North, South, East, West and Central. I have always enjoyed being in the US, I have a lot of good friends in the US and I do business with the US on a regular basis. Hence my comments are based on actual experience, not random heresay. For sure the counter argument won't be long in coming.

And to put it all into perspective, just remember what the Chinese think of the Japanese.

@chopper

Just curious, what do you think happens in Novemebr that makes the world a safer place?

It seems you (aussies) have the same opinion as a lot of English people (i wont use Brits as that brings to mind drunks in union jack vests and knotted hankies vomiting in the street in various foreign locales).

I too did'nt buy the hype about Di but she has know achieved demi-god like stature in some places.

As for the presidential debate i share George Dubyah's hope for the future "of a time when human and fish can co-exist in peace." Perhaps the fact GW is outward bound is what Chopper is referring to.

i think its pretty clear what im saying dd, and your question looks like it may be a pre-emptive launching pad to defend the indefensible george w. bush. heres some free 'ammunition'. im referring to the two term maximum for american presidents,thankfully expiring in november..crusty the clown would represent the wider world in a way that makes me feel safer than that cheerleading ,foolish ,dangerous, war mongerer ,bush. i usually try to play the ball and not the man in my comments, especially about the political situations in other peoples countries, [and to read my comments as anti american instead of anti bush would be ridiculous,and unfair]but when american presidents stop contributing to making the most interesting parts of the world unsafe destinations for aussies [and equally important,to others]due to their misguided, [where are those damn w.m.d.'s?] scatter gun policies ,ill raise my sights. years ago,in a now quashed interview with bush, in answer to why his forces invaded iraq ,[political speak = bringing democracy to iraq] he responded, and i kid you not , 'he tried to kill my daddy !', in reference to saddam. i put my bona - fides in my post loud and clear. love america and all it stood for , despise what bush has done to americas standing,and our safety in the world. an 8 year abberation that should serve as a warning to all administrations and lovers of peace. if not made clear already,i state my sympathy ,solidarity,and outrage at the horrendous ,monstrous events of 9/11,and i have always supported the rightful investigation and consequences. is the world safer now? was iraq a player in these events? is the fuedalistic tribalism overseen by that extremely unpleasant ,but controlled criminal saddam, worse than civil war, societal breakdown , 100's and 1,000's dead on all sides , misery, billions of dollars spent on war budgets , and opportunist ,intervening terrorist organisations capitalising on the chaos by moving into iraq ? is a world just a step away from an ideological holy war a good thing ? are yesterdays reported comments[from oct 22] by indonesian cleric abu bakar bashir for followers to aspire to a 'martyrdom death' and to refer to australians in bali as'worms ,snakes ,and maggotts' a triumph for international diplomacy?[in 2002 ,202 people,including 88 australians died in a bomb blast in bali] to quote one of americas finest bands, steely dan-'only a fool would say that'.and yes, im pissed off. its our world too george.shut the door on your way out.

Will November bring an improvement or the same attitudes in a different costume. We have a couple of contenters, would any of our US friends care to comment on the prospective new top dog.

Question, is there any truth to the story that at the time of his election, George Bush did not has a passport.

Make that ... did not have a passport.

@Roy:

I'm writing one. You'll probably see it in the morning. It's looooooong ;=P

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@orrin:

I find that hard to believe - you writing a long post, (I hope you like sarcasm). Speaking of posts - not seen anything from doc. At the moment your the only "old boy" holding the fort. Don't expect a fast reply, I am somewhat busy in coming days, and discussing politics is a good way to lose friends. I've probably said too much already.

It's my understanding that Doc and his wife have left China for vietnam. Hopefully, he'll check in from time to time.

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hey chopper

In no way whatsoever am I going to try to defend GWB. Personally, I think the man is an idiot. There are two choices come November, McCain who has said he will continue the war in Iraq (I guess that makes him as much of a war monger as GWB) or either Hillary or Barack, who have both said they will pull out. I would rather not have lost 4,000+ US lives plus how ever many others from allied countries in war in Iraq, but I can not stomach the thought of another 9/11. Did you know anyone that died in NY that day? I did. I don't know what the right answer is, but I am glad I don't have to make the decision. Maybe you have some insight that I don't since you seem to be implying that ending the war in Iraq will make the world a safer place. If so, please share.

Proud to be an American....ddblough

re: Doc's absence, see Doc's Blog.

;-)

regards,
T. Tempest. DCA

____________________

"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan

Tsc Tempest Photography at http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

The question is that why are we still there. I strongly believe if you someone mess with you then you should show your strength and push back. The troops did their job and catching and hanging the big cheese so why are they still there? They are warrior and fighters and not security guards. Just put them out and let iraqis figure out what to do with their country.

AAAAAAND THE’RE OFF!!!

First of all, here are a couple of articles that I found this morning that go along with my original post.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VJA9C80&show_article=1

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080323/D8VJ2UOG0.html

Now let’s get down to the meat of the matter. First of all, to set the record straight, I’ve been walking this planet a lot longer than most, if not all on this site. I guess that qualifies me as being an old(er) fart. During that time, however, I’ve seen and experienced a lot more than most of you. I’ve stated earlier that I am a life-long, proud Republican. That’s a bit unusual being as I was born and raised in a suburb of Boston, MA., and that both of my parents (RIP) were dyed-in-the-wool Democrats. There have been only two times in my adult life that I didn’t vote Republican in the presidential election. Those were in 1968 and 1972 when Richard Nixon was the Republican candidate. Instead of voting for him, I withheld my vote. History has proved me correct in doing so.

I voted for George W’s daddy twice, and I voted for George W twice. I voted for George W. in 2000, because I strongly supported him over the anointed, but politically castrated, and completely inept Clinton successor, the “Great Buffoon”, Al Gore. (Who, by the way, didn’t have the 2000 election stolen from him by George W; he lost it, plain and simple.) I voted again for him again in 2004, not solely because I supported the Iraq war, but because there was absolutely no way I could bring myself to vote for John Kerry. John Kerry was two years ahead of me in the same high school in Massachusetts. I know him. He was a phony, hypocritical, pompous ___hole then, and he was an even bigger phony, hypocritical, pompous ___hole in 2004, and he is now! Also, in November of 2004, the question of the WMD had not been fully answered. Believe it or not, the Iraq war, no doubt a significant issue, is not the ONLY issue Americans look very closely at in the run up to a presidential election.

After learning what I have over the past five years, I no longer support the Iraq war. Once I began to hear phrases such as: “winning the hearts and minds of the people”, and “securing strategic villages”, the very same words I heard forty years ago during another ill-advised military adventure in South East Asia in which 58000+ Americans, and countless others lost their lives; a war in which I was more than slightly involved, did I finally begin to “see the light”.

The problem is that: the US, England, Australia, and a number of other countries have become so deeply involved in that deadly morass, and, have so radically altered the military, political, economical, and social dynamics in that area that it is almost impossible to pull out without acutely endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of innocent people. Again, this is another echo from forty years past. There is an old saying by someone that states: “Those who forget their history are bound to repeat it”. That is exactly what is happening as I write this.

There is a comment in another thread I began about censorship that says: “No one can understand how hard for a GOV to control such huge amount of population.Me neither.
just imagine only a few millions people in middle east can cause such a long time unstable situation.
so, how about a area have billions of people if there is anything can triggers peoples rage? I don't wanna see it happen.” (This is a direct “copy-and-paste” from the original comment.)

I’m afraid that the author made this erroneous statement without a fundamental understanding of world history.

Islam is far more than “a few million people in the middle east”. Islam comprises a significant portion of the global population. The conflict between Islam and the Judeo-Christian world has been going on since the 7th century.

Indeed, there have been several recent manifestations of this conflict in places such as: NYC (twice), Bali, Madrid, London, and other less notable locations throughout the world. Unfortunately, no matter what any politician says, this conflict and the violence it breeds, is not going to go away as the result of some single action, either military or political. If some multi-faced politician tries to tell you otherwise, he or she might as well be telling you that he or she can change the course and timing of the oceans’ tides.

Indeed, my politics are definitely “Republican”. When it comes to individual politicians, however, my views are 100% non-partisan. Translation; I DON’T TRUST ANY OF THEM! My total distrust of them reaches its peak in election years. Some of them I distrust less than others. Such is the case in this election year. Oh, by the way, my distrust is not limited to American politicians. My distrust of politicians has no borders.

When it comes to the Iraq morass, my views are even more complicated. Indeed, I would like to see all the coalition troops pulled out of Iraq, or, at least, have a “date certain” set for their withdrawal. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that such an immediate or scheduled withdrawal, before the sitting Iraqi government and its security forces can quell the pervasive, and violent sectarian strife, would create a “power vacuum” that would be filled by the even more violent and brutal Islamic fundamentalists with about the same speed that air invades a broken light bulb. This is my dilemma.

We, and many others like us, can and will continue arguing for decades about why or how we got into this mess in the first place; but this argument is all “water under the bridge” that doesn’t make a damned bit of difference when it comes to finding a realistic solution. This argument didn’t do anything to “fix” the Vietnam situation then, and it isn’t doing anything to “fix” the Iraq situation now.

What we need to be focusing on is a realistic and workable plan for extracting ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan, while still maintaining some degree of security for that region and the rest of the civilized world. There are simply no simplistic solutions to this very thorny issue, no matter what John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama tell you. Don’t forget; they are all politicians in the midst of an election campaign.

There is a lot more that I have to say about this, especially about the soldiers, sailors and airmen who are involved in the front lines of all of this, but I’ll save that for later.

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to orrin; respect for a thoughtful non-kneejerk reaction to some pretty potent words i fired off recently. i disagree strongly with lots of your views but share your worry about the situation. by the way ,i aint no spring chicken old son , im a wizened old bugger, with many elections [yes with an 'l'] under my belt, and i can remember bobby kennedys sad exit very clearly, the same year my outrage at the situation in vietnam started to take shape.i wont go point for point with you,but it must be cleared up that iraq and afghanistan are entirely different situations, with connections between the two being useful only for purposes of political expediency and scare tactics[ afghanistan-taliban- iraq- quick shoot!].afghanistan wants help,its as simple as that. politically easy connections of situations like this can lead to abominations like the 'cut and run' defense. its the cutters who are the criminals , not the runners, as the runners would never had to have 'run' if the 'cutters' had not started the whole shitfight.sorry ,i get angry every time i think of this unneccesary waste of honest peoples lives. to dd, points taken man, and i see where your coming from .im just amazed at some of the terrifying justifications i see over here by other intelligent , educated, worldly people who have been dragged into this morass[nice word orrin] by a certified , and certifiable ass-clown.to finalise my opus , the reason i think things will improve after november ,no matter what the outcome, is that mccain[likely] clinton[ less likely]obama [ highly unlikely]will all be breaking their necks to find reverse as soon as barney and miss beasley have stopped sniffing round the oval office . [ sheesh,for an aussie, this dude does his homework huh?]. to back out before the election makes bush look like a loser as well as an incompetent, and i dont think the u.s. can live with that. this is only my opinion, not political research or fact. disagree if you want.thanks for taking my long distance views seriously, and i will take any comments on board to widen my understanding of this ridiculously complicated sch-mozzle.

@chopper:

Just as a point of reference, I had just begun my senior year in high school when John Kennedy was assassinated; and I got the news of Robert Kennedy’s death while I was in a briefing room, three decks below the flight deck, aboard the USS Enterprise while she was operating on what was then known as “Yankee Station” in the South China Sea. I’ll leave it up to you to do the research on Yankee Station.

Indeed, the current situation in Afghanistan, and the motivations for going in there are significantly different than those in Iraq. I included Afghanistan in my last post only because US and coalition troops are still engaged, and spilling their blood there in operations against the apparently strengthening taliban. (Even though my spell check software complains, I refuse to capitalize the name)

When I briefly returned to my home town of Waltham, Massachusetts in early 1969 after my two year tour in South East Asia, I had to endure the indignities of being labeled a “murderer” and “baby killer”. On my second day there my level of endurance was exceeded. The events of that day are still as vivid in my memory today as if they just happened this morning.

In the late afternoon of the second day of my return, I was taking a nap on the living room sofa in my parents’ house. I was still pretty “jet lagged” out at that point. I was wakened by the rather loud commotion of an automobile horn and the voices of many people yelling and screaming in front to the house. When I looked out the front window to see what was going on, I was more than a bit angered to see a group of about 30 local “war protesters”, most of whom were carrying signs with a lot of obscene slogans on them, blocking the driveway to the house, and my father, who was returning from work, trying to gently push his way through them in his car.

Guess who was at the front of the crowd, yelling and screaming the loudest of them all; it was none other than the “royal” Mr. John Kerry esq.

I instantly jumped up off the sofa, grabbed the heaviest object I could get my hands on (a souvenir Red Sox baseball bat that was on the mantel), and charged out the front door into the crowd, swinging the bat for all I was worth. It’s a damned good thing for both the freaks that were gathered out there and for me that there wasn’t a more lethal weapon at my disposal at the time.

Within seconds, it seemed, the Waltham police showed up on the scene, and managed (only after I had managed to deliver a few good “home run” blows with the bat) to break up the confrontation, and clear a path to the driveway. The officers disarmed me, put me in handcuffs, and took me off to the police station. Once we arrived at the police station, the officers, many of whom I knew, instead of putting me in a holding cell, removed the handcuffs; and we sat down in the office where we ate sandwiches, drank beer, smoked cigarettes, and chatted about old times until 7:00am the following morning, when they took me home and advised me to call them first if any more disturbances occurred at my parents’ home. None did. I still keep that old bat as a cherished relic to this day.

In 1989, I attended my only high school class reunion. When I registered at the reception desk, I was given, among other things, a hardback copy of our class yearbook which contained vintage portrait photos of the entire (about 300) graduating class.

About half of the portrait photos in the book were of young men, many of whom I had played football (not soccer), baseball, basketball, pool, chased girls, drag raced, drank beer, and smoked my first joints with. At least forty of those photos had a purple border around them, and twenty five had not only the purple border but also a large, translucent, purple “X” across their photo.

The purple border signified those who had been wounded during military hostilities. The purple “X” with the purple border indicated those who had given their lives in military service.

The very first activity on the night of the reunion was a five minute period of standing total silence in reverence to those classmates who were able to join us only in spirit. Believe me, there was not a dry eye in the house during those very somber five minutes. This is the first time I’ve mentioned or written about that night in nineteen years. It was very difficult for me to write; but perhaps it gives the reader(s) some idea about what has molded my personality, and “flavors” the things that I write here.

No doubt, the world today is an entirely different place than it was nineteen or forty years ago, and 9/11 was perhaps the single largest catalyst for that change. To me, it brings to mind a lyric from the theme song of the old film, and very popular TV program, M.A.S.H.: “Suicide Is Painless, But It Brings On Many Changes.”

One thing about me, however, that has not changed in all that time is my 100% devotion to, and support for the men and women in uniform from the coalition who have been thrust into harm’s way in the battle to stop the spread of the suicidal barbarism that is known by the politically correct name of “Islamic fundamentalism.”

Indeed, from time to time, I will enthusiastically engage in discussions and debates about the origins, justifications, motivations, policies, personalities, politics, implications, progress, and many other topics relating to the current situation in Iraq. Those of you with whom I have engaged in these discussions know that I have a pretty high tolerance for other’s opinions on the subject, no matter how much I may disagree. What I cannot, and will not tolerate, however, is any criticism or verbal attacks on the coalition soldiers who are engaged in this campaign.

Every time I see on TV, or read a report (and I’ve seen and read many) about some group of sub-human, upright-walkers picketing the funeral of a soldier who had fallen in the afore-mentioned battle, or listen to some pea-brained news commentator or politician blaming the soldiers on the ground for the policy failures in the war zone, I have to fight the urge to grab my trusty old Red Sox bat, jump on the next flight to where ever this is happening, and deliver a not so subtle illustration of my displeasure with them.

…………………and that’s all I have to say about that.

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I do not like to discuss political issues (especially four decade old ones) in an expat forum, but i don't want Orrin to be the only one brunting the force of social indignations, so i will put in my two cents worth.

i, too, was a VN vet. I remember clearly the week before i went to Saigon, i was walking in San Francisco's Chinatown. I was drawn to a basement social club, i don't remember what attracted me to go down that flight of stairs, but i do recall vividly they were showing a black and white film glorifying the NVA in a style that should be familiar to all ZH expats. In the film they where showing the body of a decapitated body of an American GI. The crowd in the room were shouting and praising this barbaric act. I wish i could have put my hands on a Red Sox baseball bat and bash in if not a few empty heads, but at lease the projector.

I went there as a 71542, and i am sure none of you here know what that stands for. I can say in my experience in Vietnam i have never heard of anyone had a film crew following their combat exploits as our illustrious senior senator from Mass, much less getting 3 purple hearts in 4 month. To me he is the real Manchurian candidate reincarnate. The point is as soldiers we serve our country above the political fry, and the sacrifices of men and women in uniform should never be cheapened by political exploits. We should also never forget FREEDOM is never free, it is always paid with blood.

Thank you orrin, that was great reading. No wonder it took you 4 days to write it, seemed like it took me 4 hours to read it.

For now, just one comment ... you have further reinforced the need for politicians to be accountable.

first off ,to orrin and goldengate. the real time experience in these matters puts your comments in another stratosphere than mine, and i respect the service, as i do the service men and women on all sides whos lives are literally on the line for their countries.. i went back to check my words for lapses in the area of maligning or blaming patriotic ,good intentioned men and women and could not find any. the defense of this invasion often [ im not saying in this case ok?] involves the questioning of opponents of the war ,about the men and women involved on the front lines , and if the opposition to the invasion is opposition ,or lack of support to them .this is emotionally inflammitory rhetoric and usually argues the directly inverse view than that intended .this means any opposing view must be presented in a way that does not arouse the sensitive , [quite rightly] emotional and pariotic fears about the involved servicemen. in an interview michael moore asked bill oreilly, if he would sacrifice his son or daughter to liberate falugia.i thought this was an extremely apposite question .[ i say the following with due respect]- 4000 from the u.s. have done this now and to me it is a waste of young lives, regardless of political views. many years ago during some ugly 'pro australian racial integrity' protests i formed the view that patriotism is a good thing ,but when it slides into nationalism can be negative if taken in the wrong direction.i still believe this. as a side note,my grandfather lays somwhere in syria and has since 1940 so i know a little of the personal cost of fighting wars, necessary or not, and the consequences of it.this thread started because the words used to describe ms pelosi, and i quote ; that stupid, purely politically motivated, miserable excuse for a soh',and ' every time she and her cronies run their mouths' were so obviously politically motivated , without relating the reported balancing view that mr. mccain had said more or less similar things.i dont mind standing up and risking a few clips around the ears to make sure balance is reported especially when my countrymen and women are in harms way in iraq, and afghanistan, shoulder to shoulder with u.s. counterparts in a war [ in the case of iraq]we should all be talking about as a history lesson in what not to do.

@chopper:

By no means did I even attempt to imply that you, or anyone on this forum, had said anything derogatory about the troops involved in the conflict. If I didn't make that clear in my post, I sincerely apologise. My comments were intended as a "preemptive strike" , aimed at anyone who might attempt to do so.

Indeed, my initial comments about Ms. Pelosi are hightly politically charged. Her specific comments that I referred to were purely political, and intended solely to "beat GWB to the punch" in condemming the very unfortunate recent events in China. What wound my spring, and prompted my post, was that she did so without any concern for how her statements might affect the American and other expats here. After all we don't make up a large enough voting block or donate enough $$ to the DNC for her to be concerned about.

I've been listening to her radical-left wing, anti-Republican rhetoric for years; long before she became Speaker Of The House (SOH) in Nov. of 2006. If one cares to do a little digging, they will find that she was calling for the impeachment of GWB before 9/11 even happened. Her justification for impeachment had something to do with the accusation that GWB had "stolen" the 2000 election from Al Gore, which just about everyone in the US now knows is pure, unadulterated, bovine fecal matter.
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"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

Sorry, I was lost in translation... what did you say?

bovine means "cow" and "fecal" means shit.

I think some clarification about the comments I made about Ms. Nancy Pelosi in my original post in this thread is in order. To do that, however, I must deliver a very high-level and brief explanation of the structure and responsibilities of the three branches of the US government; the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches.

The Executive branch is comprised of the office of the President, often referred to as “The White House”, and various departments such as the Department of State, Department of Defense, Department of the Treasury, The Department of the Interior, etc, etc. Each of these departments is headed by a member of the President’s cabinet. These particular cabinet members are called “Secretaries”. All permanent members of the cabinet are appointed by the President with the confirmation of both the Senate and the House of Representatives.

For the purposes of this discussion, I will mention that the Department of State alone is responsible for the conduct of all government foreign policy and relations. Condoleezza Rice (excuse me if I have misspelled her name) is the current Secretary of State. In some other countries, this position would be called “Foreign Minister”.

The Legislative branch is comprised of the Senate and the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives is sometimes called “The Congress”. The Senate is chaired by the Vice President of the US, and the House of Representatives is chaired by the “Speaker Of The House”, or SOH.
The SOH is elected by the members of the “House”, and is a ceremonial, but politically sensitive position. Officially, the only function of the SOH is to enforce the rules of parliamentary procedure in all debates and votes in the House. The same holds true, with a few exceptions, for the Vice President in the Senate. Always, the SOH is a member of the majority party in the House.

The responsibilities of the Legislative branch, which are many, are strictly relegated by law to domestic issues. The only times the Legislative branch’s responsibilities overlap on foreign policy issues are endorsing declarations of war, and approving the budgets for the Department of State and the US military.

The Judicial branch is comprised of the Supreme Court, and all other federal courts. Further discussion of this branch is not germane to this discussion.

So much for the lesson in US government.

Therefore, Ms. Pelosi, as the SOH, is not authorized to speak on behalf of the US on foreign policy issues. If she wants to do so as a private citizen, that’s ok, but that’s not what she’s been doing. She has been representing herself as a spokesperson for the US government. The recent incident in India is not the first time she has done this.

Shortly after she was elected to the position of SOH, she “submarined” the State Department and the Bush Administration by making an unauthorized trip to Iran where, with a contingent of her cronies by her side, and amidst a feeding frenzy by the international press corps, she met with the loony tune madman Iranian President (I won’t even attempt to spell his name) to (as she stated) “resolve the Iranian nuclear standoff”. Her rationale for this visit, as she stated repeatedly to the press during that trip was, since the Bush Administration (Ms. Rice) wasn’t making any progress with Iran, it was up to her alone to find a resolution.

Of course, Ms. Pelosi’s arrogant attempt at political “oneupsmanship” on the world stage blew up in her face. The Iranians, now confused about whom they were actually negotiating with, dug in their heels even deeper, and suspended all talks on their nuclear development programs. The net result of Ms. Pelosi’s unauthorized Iran visit was that the whole diplomatic effort with Iran was set back by almost one year.

Now, Ms. Pelosi, undaunted by her previous, disastrous forays into foreign relations, is at it again. Although the actual timing of Ms. Pelosi’s trip to India has yet to be disclosed, I for one, find it a bit too much of a coincidence to believe that she “just happened” to be in India and in close proximity to the Dali Lama when the recent, unfortunate events in Tibet began to unfold.

I’m sure that Ms. Pelosi, a knowledgeable, long-time China basher, chose her words very carefully in her press releases during her recent, unauthorized visit to the Dali Lama. I believe that her visit to the Dali Lama, and her comments to the press were designed to “twist the tail” of Beijing as hard as possible.

To be fair, I don’t think that John McCain’s comments on the situation were any better, nor did he do the American expats here any favors by making them. He came down on Beijing pretty hard as well, and I’m sure that Beijing is not very happy with him or his comments either. There is, however, a significant difference in how McCain’s and Pelosi’s comments were delivered.

Senator (and presidential candidate) McCain made his comments as part of a response to reporters’ questions while he was on the campaign trail in the US. The Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Ms. Pelosi, on the other hand, made her comments during a staged “media event” after her unauthorized meeting with the Dali Lama in India. Neither Sen. McCain nor SHO Pelosi were speaking as duly authorized spokespersons for the US government; but whose comments do you think had, or will have, the biggest impact on Beijing?

I guess that only time will tell.

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"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

Thanks for the lesson orrin, it makes things a little clearer. I wasn't rightly sure where Ms Pelosi fitted in the picture. It seems like she should be fitted to a nice quite corner.

For your information, we had a change of government in Australia last year. The new boy, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is actually an ex career diplomat who spent a lot of time in China / Beijing, speaks good Mandarin and has a "Chinese name".

Australia it seems is slowly turning from it's old ways of heaviliy aligning itself with the USA and the UK to developing much better Asian relations. Geographically is is a sensible thing to do, and perhaps not that stupid for our future economical ties. All the more sensible when you consider we have quite a reasonable percentage of citizens with an Asian heritage.

I had a friend once make a statement that's been reverberating around in my head ever since he told me (several years ago). It's time to share it, albiet at the risk of my US friends wanting to string me up ... it goes like this,

"Why has the USA gone from the worlds most loved country at the beginning of the (last) century, to the most hated at the end of the century".

Whilst perhaps not 100% accurate, it's damn close, and well worth thinking about.

The same guy had another interesting comment .... if the "Allied" forces went into places like Afganistan and Iraq with a cheque book rather than a gun, and spend to same amount of money on the people to improve the food, education, housing, transport etc etc - which would be more effective. It's an interesting thought. One that our politicians seem incapable of contemplating.

Remember what I said at the beginning of this thread? I know this was going to happen; it was only a matter of time. Now, how do you think this fits into the current visa situation?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33723.html

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"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

Interestingly, the Jack Cafferty comment has created a MUCH bigger s--t storm within the Chinese community here in the States. I stepped into it big time with one guy and may well have cost my wife a job opportunity. Oh, well, that's the Mouth of the South for ya...

I KNEW this was what Cafferty meant by the way...

"Network spokeswoman Edie Emery at CNN headquarters in Atlanta pointed out that Cafferty made a clarification Monday on "The Situation Room."

"I was referring to the Chinese government, and not to Chinese people or to Chinese-Americans," Cafferty said, referring to the 'goons and thugs' comment, on Monday's program."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_re_as/china_cnn_1;_ylt=AjrI65Q...