Finding proper staff in china

Are you just looking for English speaking help for your bar or do you really want a westerner?

I really want a westener

how much you pay? ;-)

If that's sarcasm, then give Cain the job.

Otherwise...hmm...I hear GLV is hiring! ;)

LOL

I guess I will enjoy working at a Bar rather than a school.

I wouldn't mind working at your bar if I can work it around my schedule.

call me and we can talk , 13824121280 or drop in

Mmmm, now why am i not the right guy for the job. Maybe cause pc's are easier then humans. If they don't behave you can reboot them.

Edwin , he will never offer you the job now he has stella artois on draught.He knows you will drink all his small profit.Anyway Happy newyear to you and your family Edwin

Eeek, Stella Artois. Then Ryan is still safe. I only accept Hoegaerden and Duvel. But his whisky supply might be in danger if i take the job....

Ryan it is hard to find reliable , low maintanence Westerner staff. I was offered a Resident Managers job, recently at a 5 star hotel and knocked it back .....I had 15 years in pubs in Oz as a Manager.They offered me in Zhuhai, 20,000 NO BULL. Why did I say no ? ??? VERY LONG HOURS MATE...THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE CONSIDER. Gone are the days where I can do 90 hour weeks . Anyway, good luck and hope you find someone trustworthy and loyal >

thanks , it is very hard to find anyone to work that you can trust , this is why i am offering good money to find those people, happy new year

Hey, just wondering- what would be the westerners hours?

regular 48 hours a week

Euh, me looking for job as already said but i am not a manager type. so better luck with someone else

It is indeed difficult to find good people to work for you in China. Inspite of the fact that unemployment is a problem in China, there is no denying that there also is a severe skill shortage.

Average time that a Chinese employee spends doing a particular job is too short. The "switchers" switch jobs for small money and do no good to their previous or new employers.

Chinese employees need to understand that knowledge of spoken English can only be a tool to use the basic skills that they have acquired by virtue of their education and/or experience. It can never be or should never be treated as a basic skill.

The expatriate staff is considered (and also is) too expensive as compared to the Chinese staff for most companies to hire. However, I feel that the increased efficiency and effectiveness more than compensate for the higher salary that the expatriate staff expect.

Sumit is right. I have been doing a few pc repairs here and there and the misery i have seen is unbelievable. For a meager virus infection on a pc a local techie spent half a day and then ran away after completely messing up the system. No i am not saying to who it happened as thats confidential.

But i would agree with Sumit. Pay a bit more and get an expat worker / techie....

At work we lease 10 computers, with a maintenance contract with the leasors. Every time we call them to repair something they mess it up. Not a week goes by without needing to call them. I told them, they need to have a workshop in our office ! I have lost lots of work through incompetence. We are convinced, they do it on purpose, to get the work .

The "fu wu" needs to improve in China

"Finding proper staff in china is like pulling your bottom lip over your head or like taking a pair of pliers and squeezing as hard as you can on your nuts . Why is it so hard , Can a person find a westener to work for him or her and where ?????"

hmmmmmmm.......

Maybe it would help if you treated your staff nicely. I have heard directly from one former Chinese staff member, who is a friend of mine, and indirectly from other staff, and customers, that you do not treat your staff well.
I went to your place once, and was turned off by how I overheard you speak to your bartender. Perhaps she was not competent.. but it did not excuse you speaking to her in that manner. I did not return. So I am not surprised you have trouble retaining staff.

This is a small town and a small forum and I felt a little bit uncomfortable writing this... but I felt even MORE uncomfortable reading your initial post about staffing difficulties when, maybe, it is your management that is at fault.

I realize you are an advertiser here.

josh

p.s.- responding to earlier notes in the thread: I totally agree... service needs to improve here. But that can only happen if MANAGEMENT (be it foreign or Chinese) sets the example.

All I will say to you Josh is that when you own your own bar you will understand, If you want to express yourself some more you are welcome to come down and talk with me . To clarify to others that are reading yes sometimes I do say things and do things wrong ,I am human . am sorry for that to you and others and i am trying very hard . I am not going to play this game with you or anyone if i am wrong then i will fix it , hiding on a computer and saying comments is ,,,, it does not matter , if anyone has a comment please come down
and talk to me i would like to fix any negative things, and ill buy you a drink

Ps I can start talking about other people here and saying things about others put this is what kids like to do, And also a reply ts your ps , yes it does not matter if it was westner or chinese all i am going to say by the comments you have wrote shows that you have never hired a chinese staff and have no exper with them as a boss , you can ask anyone out there that has hired a chinese staff and they will tell you the same ,. ( pleease understand they are not stupid people they are very smart , but the thinking is 200% different and this makes it very hard to train )

I agree with Ryan. This is not the place to be voicing personal displeasures. I think this site was designed to help each other with problems that some of us face especially guys like myself who haven't been in China for a long time. No need to be attacking one another here. Were all trying to create a good life here so let's cut the BS and get back to giving each other some friendly pointers.
Just my opinion.

I really appreciated your response to my response to your initial post, Ryan.. and I promise I will come down and speak to you personally.

As for Dwayne... this is not the place to voice personal displeasures?
Since when?
People voice personal displeasures here all the time and.. if they didn't.. i am sorry but I feel It would be a boring forum indeed.Is that what you want?
Furthermore, I hardly attacked Ryan. He complained about the difficulty he has experienced in dealing Chinese staff, and I posted my observations. I did not libel his bar.
I was polite in my criticism, and he was polite in his response. Are you saying the expat community in ZH has no room for that?

joshburnam

Maybe it would help if you treated your staff nicely. I have heard directly from one former Chinese staff member, who is a friend of mine, and indirectly from other staff, and customers, that you do not treat your staff well.
I went to your place once, and was turned off by how I overheard you speak to your bartender. Perhaps she was not competent.. but it did not excuse you speaking to her in that manner. I did not return. So I am not surprised you have trouble retaining staff.

If i didn't know the guy I would definitely not go to his bar after reading your comments. My point is that since I have been here this website has helped me tremendously. Always lots of great people, (mostly who I have never met), ready to give another expat some kindly advise.
So I don't think you used good judgement with your remarks. I don't want to get into a war of words here. I hope that we can keep this site user friendly. If you want to reply to me and are feeling harsh towards my opinion then please email me directly at dwayneffraser@yahoo.ca.
I've never met you and probably your a nice guy so I hope that we can all put this behind us.

Dont fight boys! Josh, i dont know you,but i think you rushed a bit with your conclusions...Ryan's a nice dude,and a friendly one too... as for him being harsh to somebody- hey,everybody has bad days from time to time... And i know for sure from my own experience it could be hard sometimes dealing with chinese.
Peace
K

Ryan

I just wanted to say i know exactly where you are coming from and i think you answered Josh's comments tactfully (i completely agree with Dwayne btw). Like you said until someone is in or has been in your position it is unfair to comment. I know this comment is inviting some feedback but after a few years of running my own firm i sometimes wished i had a trap door like Mr.Burns.
But i think it is fair to say finding reliable staff anywhere in the world is difficult.

Make love not war! Can't we all just get along?

I'm here for a good time..not a long time!

Confucious say, Canadian who spend much time on bedspring,
bound to get many offspring !

Again, I stand by what I wrote, and I will visit Ryan. I am not an anonymous agitator. And I don't want to start a war of words. But I have to say... what is this attitude that we cannot say anything negative on the forum. Is the forum merely an advertising site? I don't think so. There were no harsh words thrown here. I do understand that new business here needs to be supported, I totally agree with that. We should all be working to build business here in ZH. But I firmly believe we can support business endeavors here on the forum with critical comments as well.

Josh;

Sometimes, somethings are just better off said in a more private setting.

IMHO, your comments to Ryan went beyond constructive criticism and sounded a bit personal. That's not to say you meant them that way, but to a casual observer like me, that's the way they sounded. Perception is often times reality. Just my HO.

Anyway, everything is cool now: Josh will visit Ryan :)
Maybe we can go back to the original question in this thread, which is an interesting one: how to get good staff in China?

Confucius say "Man with hole in pocket, feel cocky all day"

As for the original question beats me, we need 4 new teachers at BNUZ, preferably people who wont be getting wrecked every night or sleeping on benches in Gongbei...

There are benches in Gongbei?

"sleeping on benches in Gongbei..."

That takes Macca off the list...

ok ok ok ok ok as it is now and before what Josh wrote was ok but the way you wrote it was very personal . I understand what you were trying to say and i am sure you understand my point of view , I have no bad personal feelings and i am sure you are the same . It is a forum ans people can speak freely here . but we must make sure we do not say or write the wrong things( getting personal).

p.s. I want to hear negative things on here about the bar in a friendly manner , this way I can improve me as a person and as a part of the zhuhai expat community . I am only human and I struggle everyday with the people around me like all of us do . when i am wrong i will say sorry and as a person that is the best thing i can offer

Ryan

Management styles vary across the wast as well as here in China. Sure, someone might do something that makes me (you?) cringe but most of the time I let it go. This doesn't change the fact that it IS hard to find quality staff here in China.

Understanding the reasons for this is part of a manager's responsibility. However, this does not make the hiring decision any easier. I understand Ryan's difficulty. I also understand the various criticisms leveled, also having personal observation of them, but that doesn't change the situation under consideration.

How to hire quality staff?

I think the answer to this question lies in a combination of, selective staff evaluation, as well as in-house training in the culture and expectations of, performance specific to the work location.

This means that the location, Ryan's Bar in this case, need to invest heavily in staff training in the culture, behavior and performance that it expects from staff. The trouble is, is that such investment MUST be inputed regardless of the success of the outcome. Sad to say, here in the middle kingdom, the ROI on such efforts is marginal, yet for the successful entrepreneur (by observation only) it is tryly worth the energy and effort.

All the best of luck Ryan. I don't know how to tell you to do what you do any different.

regards,

T. Tempest. DCA
____________________
"I'd love a thousand words in a foreign language." Tang Yuchuan
All welcome to visit my homepage http://www.kong-xi.com/doc.html

Ryan, you have a good personality and people come to your Bar because you are well liked. Keep up the good work. Many would like to be in your shoes. I am sure its not a easy task to set up shop in China !

Ryan,
I'll come back to Zhuhai in November and than we can talk about it.