How hard is it?

Solution; Don't buy the meat or veggies from the street vendor.

------------------------------------------------------
"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

Fair enough...but when I have to walk around urine and spit all day it annoys me a little... don't you think?

You have been watching too many germ free commercials. Mankind has successfully evolved over hundreds of thousands of years without concrete toilet blocks and aggressive cleaning agents.

Did you know that one of the best ways to cure some forms of tinnia is to pee on your own foot.

The street vendors tend to cook the food before selling it to you.

Most people (including me) will agree with you, but when ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

It is said that perhaps the biggest improvement to public health since the industrial revolution is public sanitation and clean water. I can tell you from personal experience that the message hasn't reached a lot of rural China, and half of rural China now lives in urban China.

Roy,
This may be true (oh I do not watch tv, have not for about 10 years or so..and if I have tinnia I go to a doctor and I can hardly imagine a young child having tinnia but then again I am not looking to deep to see if they're peeing on it or not...) with that said even the cavemen did not piss or shit in thier own cave!!! LOL ... and you are right, when you gotta go you gotta go and even my cat knows knows that...,

I am not saying it is so bad to go to the toilet in public. I just think that maybe they could find a less public way to do it! Why pee on the footpath when you can pee in a garden. Urinating on the front steps outside the entrance to my building for example is the wrong place... to me it just stems down to lazy parenting. It is not hard to teach a child to hold his or her pee untill they can find a less public way of doing it. And isn't up to us as "educated clean people" to say something? I would hardly call Zhuhai a rural backward city. I have hiked most of China and I can say that in the heartland of China, thier toilets maybe dirty and unclean but at least they use them!

I once saw a woman allowing a young girl to go No2 (deficating) on the front steps of a Hotel that I was staying in once in Guangdong, I looked at the secruity guard as if to ask "what are you going to do about it?" his "hey!" reaction would not have come had I not said anything and the hotel guests would have then been forced to step over this child's poo untill somebody cleaned it up.

Nobody wants to say anything because they know it is wrong but they are afraid to lose face... Maybe I am wrong, on second thought I will now piss and shit in public every chance I can get because when you gotta go you go...!!

I agree with you, it's not right and not pretty - but it's their country and if they want to shit in it, and spread rubbish from top to bottom, they can.

If we can even understand why their fellow citizens think it's not worth doing anything about it, we are probably one step closer to understanding the Chinese psyche. Clearly you and I aren't there yet.

hehehe maybe I never will be ROY!!!! lol

Not for the modest? What? I'd glady use these myself if they put them in Zhuhai. They've had them all around Europe for years. Port-o-Pottys in The States.

Maybe one of you entrepenreurs might look into investing in this?

http://www.gadling.com/2007/03/16/outdoor-chinese-urinals/

This one's worth a read; though I couldn't get the images (could be my computer).

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/5414?fpsrc=ealert070720

They even have something for women to use in stand up urinals.

http://www.urinelle.biz/

Anyway, behind the bush at least, yes? Okay, that's enough toilet talk for me for awhile.

Add: If one has "Bacteriophobia" - (Fear of bacteria), one can always carry around those anti-bacterial soaked wet-whipe packets and just nonchalantly toss them on the sidewalk after usage. The usual custom seems to be about seven or eight feet away from the nearest garbage bin.

hahahaha Earthling.. I have seen those before.. LOL

I just KNEW someone quite capable would appear to carry on the torch! Wish Id've known ya, Gurrang X 2...

Oh, I forgot to add this gem...a few years ago I watched a grandma pull down the knickers of her granddaughter--who was around FIVE--and let her wee away...RIGHT on the floor of KFC next to GLV!!! Not ONE person batted an eye. The bathroom was literally three steps away. I swear...true story.

5,000 years of......

Canrun..hahahah it is 5.30am in morning and as I read your comment I had to contain my LOL for fear of waking up my family... believe it or not I saw the same the same thing not 1 week ago in the very same place.. I thought i would do the right thing and educate the local only to find out that the little girl peeing is one of my students... imagine my suprise and hers when I looked at her and her parents and showed them where the toilet was!!! LOL ...

I love it, when you go into a public toilet or in the jida Beach ones and they stink and are flithy, then they have the nerve to ask for payment as you leave.

When it rains here, I feel sad because you know all of the (tons) of spit is being washed away.....into our oceans.
Why cant Zhuhai have laws and educational ads the same as HK only 1hour away????

Some of those HK educational adverts are quite something. I was sitting in the HK ferry port last week when there was a 5 minutes (or more) full blown video about reporting graft and corruption. I was stunned, no western government would have had the balls to discuss some of the things this video was addressing. Good on em.

Welcome back canrun, thought you had run away. To answer you, 5000 years of devolution to the lowest common level. It really is about education, or the lack of it.

Let's be fair. If you walk down many streets in San Francisco just a couple of blocks from Union Square, the entire neighborhood smells like one gigantic urinal. I have not found one public facility in the entire BART system (SF's subway). At lease there are many public restrooms here and for free.

@Goldengate.. I am being fair, I would be saying the same thing if we were in any other country where the locals pissed and shit on the ground and did not care, as it happens we are in China, so our comments relate to China! I have to wonder why it is possible to teach 6 or so million people in Hong Kong not to spit on the ground and yet it is impossible to teach half that amount here in Zhuhai. I know it sounds like I am ranting but one has to wonder why the government does nothing to combat this problem. When SARS returns in full force to wipe us out, they'll be scratching their heads asking 'WHY?". ,,,,LOL

Actually don't hold HK that high up on the pedestal. Just about 10 years ago, I would have had to dodge flying phlegm while walking down the street.

Well the government started putting up hefty penalties for such acts. The standard $1500 fine for spitting, litering, jay-walking....etc. And then last year the $5000 smoking fine.

Does it work? I think fines do help the cause - but only if there is law enforcement around. When was the last time you saw policemen walking the beat in zhuhai?

Shanghai started to put up an ad campaign to help educate/civilize the people in preperation for the 2010 world expo. Squatting, shouting, jumping in line is frowned upon. And spitting, littering, urinating, jaywalking etc etc will be fined. Beijing obviously went through the same campaign for the Olympics. Time will tell how effective it'll be.

It was relatively easy to implement such a system in HK. Well it only has 6.5 million people. You run an ad on HK's 4 main TV channels and then a couple posters on the MTR, it would reach over 80% of the population. On top of that, HK has one of the highest police to population ratios in the world....to help enforce those laws.

That is simply not the case in China.

and yet, bird flu is still in HK, regardless whether China does not reveal everything that is going on in China...
knowing too much can be bad sometimes...i really wish i didn't know everything i know....

@tailvrrey:
I guess then that you subscribe to the theory that “ignorance is bliss”? As long as all one knows is the truth, there is no such thing as “knowing too much”. Therefore, how in the world can you say that knowing too much can sometimes can be bad? Perhaps I’m just an unenlightened, naïve, incompletely educated, foreigner, but I simply can’t follow that logic.

------------------------------------------------------
"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

@tailvrrey I sit here trying to think of something witty to say in response to your comment, but in all honesty mate, you have me dumbfounded! I have to agree with orrin, I simply can't follow your logic!

yes, ignorance is a bliss, sometimes - and many times not practical

well...try to explain here...

i've lived in a 3rd world country, 1st world country, and now China - 3rd world country people are a hell lot happier than the rest....cuz most who are, chose not to care about all of these little bitty things, they don't make this a big deal out of their lives.....and trust me, their quality of life has not changed (quality being a relative term to single individuals)
i just wonder sometimes if i didn't know half of what i know, would I be happier that way?

i don't know if you guys been to Guizhou. I was so amazed on how the locals just like to gamble (mahjong, cards, etc)...heard that it was the same in Sichuan....anyways...had some friends from there and came over to visit Zhuhai for a few weeks, i was shocked to realize that they were bored the hell out of their asses because they didn't get enough gambling time.....you see, they were so happy the way their life in Guizhou, living their happy (relative) gambling lives, and did not care to or bother about what we sometimes have to bother with....and they are so happy about the way their life was...

another thing, went to Indy earlier this year for work - and it again felt that many Chinese poeple have more freedom than the Americans.... it just looks like Americans are so locked into many of the laws, rules, and stuff that most of their lives are dictated by that...cuz they have to worry about the things they know....but i know it's part of the society and human progress to have these kind rules...blablabla....and i know it's not very practical to think it that way...

oh well...i think because of fast progress too, sometimes it's a pity that China is losing a lot of it's culture too, because a lot of the changes are not too well thought through

dudes, my comments are just thoughts, don't think i am here to make it personal on foreigners, if i was going to do that, i would have done it in a different way - FUNNIER WAYS....

gosh, you guys are so sensitive...hehehe

peace

gurrang: i would like to know what's your suggestion to solve this problem

ummm are we talking about the people shitting and pissing on the ground still or are we now talking about the gambling problems that run rancid through any society like a cancer it is? Let's forget the fact that my thread heading has been altered without my consent! It used to be called "HOW HARD IS IT TO TEACH THE LOCALS TO USE A TOILET!" ... No need to know where that pressure came from! But if I am to understand you, and I think I do!, I should just evolve into an ignorant mahjong addict who spits and shits everywhere, because hey! life is happier that way!

Gambling is wrong in any form, in any country... it is a disease that ruins too many families! Mao was right on that one!

As to the toilet problem, I think all it would take would be for Mr Hu to wave his magic wand and make it illegal.. education starts at home! I was toilet trained before I went to school, I do not blame the Education System, perhaps if you ran TV adds, this may help!

TROLLS should stay at home!

Yes I agree: they could copy paste all the ads form the HK tv channels and put them on cctv... this would help a lot.
I was here during SARS and it drove me even more mad that people would spit during this time. Obviously, they did not understand the consequences... so tv ads like HK would help a lot :)
JJ

@JJ:
I agree; running the ads might help. I was here also during the SARS incident, and they were running locally produced ads on ZHTV at the same time. Unfortunately, the ads didn't seem to have the desired effect here.

------------------------------------------------------
"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

I like the new name for this thread. My wife frequently asks me the very same question. In fact, she just ask<.....sorry dear.

------------------------------------------------------
"I can't get no respect.............. no respect at all!"

haha... hope Gurrang-Gurrang is not too angry :)
JJ

It is against my religion to get angry JJ. ;-) Yet I have still not received a proper answer as to why my thread was altered and my response thread deleted....LOL I was here during SARS and their idea of dealing with the epidemic was the same way they deal with everything...deny deny deny! When will these children grow up?

Gurrang,

Get thee to anti-cnn.com hen kuai! Your insights are needed.

You would've been great on Sinocidal, too.
Heck...you're an old-timer. Make that Talk Talk China!

Well I did send you an email via your contact form. Check whatever email you have used to register on this site and you will see :)

"I should just evolve into an ignorant mahjong addict who spits and shits everywhere, because hey! life is happier that way!"
even if that was the point i was getting to....who are you to judge them if that's their choice? you need to remember you are NOT Chinese, you didn't experience what they have experienced, they didn't have the luxury you had....their view of happiness is not the same as yours...my goodness, how hard is it for you to just accept that...without adding more non-sense to it....YOU, ME & 10+billion people around the world are different. PERIOD. I am not arguing with you about good or bad of mahjong...df

On potty training:
how the hell is a mom going to potty train her child if she wasn't educated to do so? the example at KFC that was brought up....anyone educated the granny about that? DID YOU? Did their parents? Did their school? are you going to blame her? or just friking make fun of the situation? Plus, what does this have to do with educational system?

why doesn't ADs work in Zhuhai and works in HK? HK had a greater Western education/influence than China....just because they all look Chinese doesn't mean they are the same...there's not one solution to problems ....all it takes is some understanding of why they do it, and you will be a step closer to finding a solution (from the constructive argument you wanted to share with us)

That's definitely the wrong question my friend.

It should be : why there are no ads?

Most country , as they develop, also find a way to improve hygiene civism etc... In another post, I stated how French people used to piss everywhere a while ago. And Frankly I am happy that they have stopped. Should I have blamed USA for an "Americanization" of my country just because americans don't piss in the street? Non sense.

Another issue: drinking and driving. This was so common in France up to ten / 15 years ago. It took a lot of work from the government ( ads etc...) to make it stop.
This has nothing to do with East versus West or the fact that everybody is different.

Nobody is bashing locals on this site:
This is why Gurrang's title has been edited.

Nobody is allowed be too aggressive on this site:
This is why the content of your post has been edited as well.

JJ

JJ,

I know I've shown undesirable behavior, and I apologize for that.

Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. What we're doing here is the long way.

I just truly believe that some of these posts about experiences are just for the sharing of funny experiences in China - just a shame many of them are not....Issues can be brought up in different manners, in manners that everyone would interpret and appreciate the same way

btw, I really like this site - helpful and informational -
you've done a really good job...good luck keeping up with the clean-up jobs like this one ;)

Can any body say "bend over"? JJ have not checked my emails.. but thanks. It is obvious that we can no longer say anything deemed "negative" on this site, so I will keep it happy from now on!

I can! Bend over! Bend over! Bend over!
what does that mean?

Gurrang Gurrang... I really wish you would read your email then before making a judgement.
If nothing negative was allowed on this site, then your post would have been removed. Is that the case?
No. why not?
Anyway, your title was putting all "locals" into one group. I don't like that, my wife who is chinese and who can use the toilet better than I can ( I do miss the target now and again... she doesn't) doesn't like it neither.

Putting a whole nation into one group and describing it in a negative way is a form of racism and I will not accept it from the expats towards the Chinese and I will not accept it from the Chinese towards the "Westerners".
If your title had said "some locals" instead of "the locals" my reaction may have been different.

The objective of this website is to help Foreigners working and living in Zhuhai.
If you need to be negative, fine, but then choose your words.
If you want to be negative without choosing your words, then post on sinocidal instead.
This thread is now closed.
JJ